I would like to personally welcome Battery Mooch to TasteYourJuice.com.
“Mooch” is well known in the industry as the “battery guy” and is quite popular on the ECF. I’ve worked with Mooch several times in the background and he’s always been quite helpful and knowledgeable in answering my questions.
Although I have some experience with battery testing, Mooch has all the experience I lack so I though it a good fit to offer him his own page here on TasteYourJuice.com.
If you look to the left, you’ll see the new Battery Mooch page under Information/Resources. His first article can be found there as well.
WELCOME MY FRIEND!
Who is Battery Mooch?
My name is John Muchow, some of you may know me as Mooch on ECF and FB and Mooch315
on ECR. I have been vaping since April, 2015 and haven’t smoked once since I
started!I was born and raised in New York City and still live there now. Since 1992 I have
been designing and building electronic devices for a large number of clients. My
first products were camera remote-control systems for sports photographers. As these
systems, and other devices, transitioned from wired to wireless the performance of
the batteries they used was very important as there was no way to replace them
during use. This led to me doing more and more battery testing and developing the
electronics to charge, test, and protect them.As battery technology advanced, from NiCd to NiMH to Li-Ion and now
ultracapacitor/Li-Ion hybrids, the devices I built and the battery testing I did
advanced along with them. I started specializing in power management electronics;
battery chargers, energy harvesters (for charging from heat, light, or
vibration/movement), power supplies, battery analyzers, electronic loads for battery
discharging, and battery management/protection systems. This is the work I still do
today.My clients have included the US Army, National Geographic, Sports Illustrated,
Eastman Kodak Company, and hundreds of other companies from large to small. Part of
the work I’ve done for a lot of my clients has been battery testing. Sometimes they
want to recommend a good battery to their customers. Other times they’re batteries I
have chosen to combine with my electronics to form a complete, protected power
source for them to incorporate into their products.Depending on my client’s requirements this testing can take up to several weeks to
complete. I use a subset of these tests when evaluating the batteries we use when
vaping. This includes continuous-current tests to establish the battery’s true (and
safe) ratings. They also help to determine if there’s any risk of venting if one of
our mods autofires or a mechanical mod’s button is accidentally pressed. The
pulse-current tests measure the degree of voltage sag we would see when vaping at
different current levels. Both types of tests are done the same way for every set of
batteries I test.This consistency in the testing allows for direct comparison of the performance of
different batteries even if the pulse discharging I do doesn’t match the way you
vape.Safety is my number one priority. While I often test at discharge current levels
that can result in unsafe battery temperatures, this is the only way to figure out
what a battery’s true and safe ratings are. No battery is totally safe but we can
certainly avoid taking unnecessary risks.My blog at ECF has the results of all my testing and a few articles on batteries,
battery safety, etc.:https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/mooch.256958/
I have also listed the equipment I use and the steps I follow when testing. This
allows anyone to replicate my tests if they want to:https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/my-cell-testing-equipment-and-setup.7431/
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/whats-done-for-each-cell-test.7433/
My battery test results offer you a resource you can use when choosing a battery
that will not only be safer for the way you vape but will also give you great
performance.I’m looking forward to contributing to TasteYourJuice.com and I want to thank
PBusardo for the opportunity to help spread the word on exaggerated battery ratings
and battery safety!Mooch
Latest Battery Updates
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Panasonic NCR18650PF 10A 2680mAh 18650 Bench Retest Results…an ok low capacity 10A battery
Bottom Line: This is a 10A 2680mAh-rated battery that will often deliver 100mAh more at low current levels. Due to its very high internal resistance and lower capacity though it is easily outperformed by the Panasonic NCR18650GA, LG MJ1, and other high-capacity 10A batteries. I do not recommend using it over 18W/5A to minimize voltage sag.
The 18650 ratings table has been updated to include this cell.
Test results, discharge graph, photos: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/panasonic-ncr18650pf-10a-2680mah-18650-bench-retest-results-an-ok-low-capacity-10a-battery.774091/
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Panasonic NCR18650B 4.9A 3200mAh 18650 Bench Test Results…a so-so 4.9A battery
Bottom Line: This battery is often shown as a 6.4A 3400mAh battery but it’s not. The datasheet clearly shows its rating is 4.875A and 3200mAh. Due to its very high internal resistance and lower capacity it is easily outperformed by the Panasonic NCR18650GA, LG MJ1, and other high-capacity batteries. I do not recommend using it over 12W/3A to minimize voltage sag.
The 18650 ratings table has been updated to include this cell.
Test results, discharge graph, photos: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/panasonic-ncr18650b-4-9a-3200mah-18650-bench-test-results-a-so-so-4-9a-battery.773723/
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Samsung 35E 3500mAh 18650 Bench Test Results…a so-so 8A battery
Bottom Line: This battery has a very high 3500mAh capacity rating but even at just 5A its run time down to 3.2V is a lot shorter than the 3300mAh Panasonic NCR18650GA. Its high internal resistance causes a lot of voltage sag which triggers a regulated mod’s weak battery alert sooner than batteries like the NCR19650GA and MJ1. I am rating it at 8A/3500mAh.
The 18650 ratings table has been updated to include this cell.
Test results, discharge graph, photos: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/samsung-35e-3500mah-18650-bench-test-results-a-so-so-8a-battery.773473/
All my test results to date: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
18350/18500 ratings and pulse performance data: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/18350-safety-grades-and-pulse-performance-data.7566/
18650 current ratings and safety grades: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/18650-safety-grades-picking-a-safe-battery-to-vape-with.7447
26650 ratings and pulse performance data: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/26650-safety-grades-and-pulse-performance-data.7554/
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: I was wrong about the Samsung 26F!
I was wrong!
The Samsung ICR18650-26F does NOT use the same volatile chemistry as LiPo batteries.
In a post in August I said it did. That is incorrect. As the MSDS document for the 26F shows, it uses the same “hybrid” NMC chemistry as that used in the 25R, VTC4/5, HE2/4, and other batteries we consider to be relatively safe to vape with.
NMC chemistry, nickel-manganese-cobalt, is one of multiple chemistries that use the “ICR” manufacturer’s model number prefix. Another one using that prefix is LCO, lithium-cobalt-oxide, which is used in LiPo batteries and is significantly more volatile than the other Li-Ion chemistries.
So while the 26F has a low 5.2A rating, low capacity for an under-10A battery, and I don’t recommend buying it, it is not any more dangerous to use than other batteries with the same chemistry like the 25R, VTC4/5, and HE2/4.
My apologies for any confusion this has caused. Bench test results for the 26F will be posted soon.
https://imgur.com/a/ayuEY
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Samsung 26F 5.2A 2600mAh Bench Test Results…just not worth it
Bottom Line: This cell has a low current rating, 5.2A, but uses the safer “hybrid” NMC (nickel-manganese-cobalt) chemistry version of “ICR”. It does not use the more volatile LCO (lithium-cobalt oxide) chemistry version of ICR that is also used in LiPo’s. NMC chemistry is used in the 25R, VTC4/5, HE2/4, and other cells we use often and consider to be pretty safe.
It also has a low capacity rating, 2600mAh, compared to several other <10A batteries. There’s very little reason for a vaper to use this battery. If you do use them, stay below 15W to get what you can from these cells without the weak battery warning appearing immediately. The 18650 ratings table has been updated to include this cell.
Test results, discharge graph, photos: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/samsung-26f-5-2a-2600mah-bench-test-results-just-not-worth-it.773291/
All my test results to date: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
18350/18500 ratings and pulse performance data: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/18350-safety-grades-and-pulse-performance-data.7566/
18650 current ratings and safety grades: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/18650-safety-grades-picking-a-safe-battery-to-vape-with.7447
26650 ratings and pulse performance data: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/26650-safety-grades-and-pulse-performance-data.7554/
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Energy Vap 35A 3000mAh Bench Test Results…a dangerously overrated 20A 2700mAh battery!
Bottom Line: This cell was sent to me by Phil Busardo…thank you! It is an overrated and rewrapped cell that I am rating at 15A and 2700mAh. If you are vaping with it at its 35A rating and there is a mod malfunction or accidental button press the cell can get hot enough to possibly vent. This is unacceptable and clearly shows that this is not a 35A cell.
Thanks Mooch! Got this one in France and sent it right to the expert!! 🙂
-Phil Busardo
It appearance is identical to the Samsung 30Q but its performance is lower than the ones I have tested before. It’s probably a lower grade cell.
The 18650 ratings table has been updated to include this cell.
Test results, discharge graph, photos: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/energy-vap-35a-3000mah-bench-test-results-a-dangerously-overrated-20a-2700mah-battery.771617/
All my test results to date: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
18350/18500 ratings and pulse performance data: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/18350-safety-grades-and-pulse-performance-data.7566/
18650 current ratings and safety grades: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/18650-safety-grades-picking-a-safe-battery-to-vape-with.7447
26650 ratings and pulse performance data: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/26650-safety-grades-and-pulse-performance-data.7554/
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: A123 ANR26650M1-B 2400mAh 3.3V 26650 Bench Test Results…an extraordinary battery, with issues
Bottom Line: This is an extraordinary cell that I am rating at 30A. The two cells I received from EnerCig and the two from Nkon appear to have come from the same batch.
The datasheet has a “maximum continuous discharge” rating of 70A in the datasheet. But at that temperature, about 85°C, the cell will have a significantly reduced cycle life. This rating is an absolute maximum, not a level you should operate the battery at for every cycle. To allow direct comparison against other batteries I am rating this cell at a level, 30A, which limits the temperature to 60°C to ensure good cycle life. Above this temperature the cell’s aging accelerates significantly. The cell can easily be pulsed at levels above 80A though.
This cell’s lithium-ferrous-phosphate (LFP) chemistry is the safest of the Li-Ion chemistries we use. While this should never be used as an excuse to do so, these A123’s can take a lot of abuse before going into thermal runaway. If they do go into runaway their reaction isn’t as violent as the other chemistries. But this cell requires a 3.6V charger!
The voltage of this cell is very steady for most of the discharge, very similar to LiPo’s. This is great for unregulated/mechanical mod users. The iJoy 4200mAh 26650 is a better choice for vaping at up to about 40A though.
The 26650 ratings table has been updated to include this cell.
Test results, discharge graph, photos: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/a123-anr26650m1-b-2400mah-3-3v-26650-bench-test-results-an-extraordinary-battery-with-issues.770987/
All my test results to date: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
18350/18500 ratings and pulse performance data: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/18350-safety-grades-and-pulse-performance-data.7566/
18650 current ratings and safety grades: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/18650-safety-grades-picking-a-safe-battery-to-vape-with.7447
26650 ratings and pulse performance data: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/26650-safety-grades-and-pulse-performance-data.7554/
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: What makes A123 batteries different?
In preparation for posting the A123 26650 test results I wanted to briefly list how the lithium-ferrous-phosphate chemistry (“LFP”) batteries from A123 Systems, Inc., differ from the batteries we normally use when vaping.
A123 batteries have several advantages:
– Their low internal resistance means they are able to supply more current before overheating and they hold their voltage up better.
– LFP is the safest of the Li-Ion chemistries. It has a higher threshold temperature for thermal runaway and less violent reactions if the battery does go into runaway.
– LFP offers long cycle life, i.e., it is capable of a larger number of charge/discharge cycles than the other Li-Ion chemistries.
A123 batteries have a few disadvantages though:
– The 26650 is only 2400mAh and the 18650 is only 1100mAh.
– They have a nominal voltage of 3.3V versus the 3.6V/3.7V for the li-ion batteries we normally use. At high discharge current levels the voltage can be down close to 2.5V.
I won’t be testing the 18650 as its capacity is so low. For more information about A123 technology, LFP chemistry, A123 battery specifications, and working with A123 batteries:
Overview of A123’s technology:
http://www.batteryspace.com/prod-specs/6610_1.pdf
ANR26650M1-B Brochure/Specs:
http://www.batteryspace.com/prod-specs/6610.pdf
APR18650M1-A Brochure/Specs:
http://www.batteryspace.com/prod-specs/6612.pdf
Cylindrical Battery Pack Design Guide:
http://www.formula-hybrid.org/wp-content/uploads/A123-Pack-Design-Guide-for-Cylindrical-Cells.pdf
https://imgur.com/a/8UefF
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: MXJO Yellow 30A 1600mAh 18650 Bench Test Results…just a 21A battery but 2100mAh
Bottom Line: This is an overrated and rewrapped cell which I am rating at 21A. Its capacity is significantly over its rating though, 2100mAh, which makes me wonder if a different cell was originally used. At 30A continuous it reached 94°C, much too hot to be its true rating.
It is identical in appearance and performance to the Sony VTC4, but the cell MXJO uses can change at any time.
The 18650 ratings table has been updated to include this cell.
Test results, discharge graph, photos: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/mxjo-yellow-30a-1600mah-18650-bench-test-results-just-a-21a-battery-but-2100mah.768535/
All my test results to date: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: AWT Red/Black 50A 2600mAn 18650 Bench Test Results…a dangerously overrated 20A battery!
Bottom Line: This is a preposterously overrated and rewrapped cell which I am rating at 20A. At only 35A continuous, well below its rating, it could reach dangerous temperatures and possibly vent if there was a mod malfunction or accidental button press. At 40A and above its voltage quickly collapses. Even if just pulsed at its 50A rating the voltage dropped to just over 3.0V on the first pulse.
Both cells I tested had some dents or handling marks on the bottom of the can, under the wrap. This must have happened during the rewrapping.
It is identical in appearance and performance to the Sony VTC5.
The 18650 ratings table has been updated to include this cell.
Test results, discharge graph, photos: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/awt-red-black-50a-2600man-18650-bench-test-results-a-dangerously-overrated-20a-battery.767819/
All my test results to date: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
18350/18500 ratings and pulse performance data: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/18350-safety-grades-and-pulse-performance-data.7566/
18650 current ratings and safety grades: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/18650-safety-grades-picking-a-safe-battery-to-vape-with.7447
26650 ratings and pulse performance data: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/26650-safety-grades-and-pulse-performance-data.7554/
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