I would like to personally welcome Battery Mooch to TasteYourJuice.com.
“Mooch” is well known in the industry as the “battery guy” and is quite popular on the ECF. I’ve worked with Mooch several times in the background and he’s always been quite helpful and knowledgeable in answering my questions.
Although I have some experience with battery testing, Mooch has all the experience I lack so I though it a good fit to offer him his own page here on TasteYourJuice.com.
If you look to the left, you’ll see the new Battery Mooch page under Information/Resources. His first article can be found there as well.
WELCOME MY FRIEND!
Who is Battery Mooch?
My name is John Muchow, some of you may know me as Mooch on ECF and FB and Mooch315
on ECR. I have been vaping since April, 2015 and haven’t smoked once since I
started!I was born and raised in New York City and still live there now. Since 1992 I have
been designing and building electronic devices for a large number of clients. My
first products were camera remote-control systems for sports photographers. As these
systems, and other devices, transitioned from wired to wireless the performance of
the batteries they used was very important as there was no way to replace them
during use. This led to me doing more and more battery testing and developing the
electronics to charge, test, and protect them.As battery technology advanced, from NiCd to NiMH to Li-Ion and now
ultracapacitor/Li-Ion hybrids, the devices I built and the battery testing I did
advanced along with them. I started specializing in power management electronics;
battery chargers, energy harvesters (for charging from heat, light, or
vibration/movement), power supplies, battery analyzers, electronic loads for battery
discharging, and battery management/protection systems. This is the work I still do
today.My clients have included the US Army, National Geographic, Sports Illustrated,
Eastman Kodak Company, and hundreds of other companies from large to small. Part of
the work I’ve done for a lot of my clients has been battery testing. Sometimes they
want to recommend a good battery to their customers. Other times they’re batteries I
have chosen to combine with my electronics to form a complete, protected power
source for them to incorporate into their products.Depending on my client’s requirements this testing can take up to several weeks to
complete. I use a subset of these tests when evaluating the batteries we use when
vaping. This includes continuous-current tests to establish the battery’s true (and
safe) ratings. They also help to determine if there’s any risk of venting if one of
our mods autofires or a mechanical mod’s button is accidentally pressed. The
pulse-current tests measure the degree of voltage sag we would see when vaping at
different current levels. Both types of tests are done the same way for every set of
batteries I test.This consistency in the testing allows for direct comparison of the performance of
different batteries even if the pulse discharging I do doesn’t match the way you
vape.Safety is my number one priority. While I often test at discharge current levels
that can result in unsafe battery temperatures, this is the only way to figure out
what a battery’s true and safe ratings are. No battery is totally safe but we can
certainly avoid taking unnecessary risks.My blog at ECF has the results of all my testing and a few articles on batteries,
battery safety, etc.:https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/mooch.256958/
I have also listed the equipment I use and the steps I follow when testing. This
allows anyone to replicate my tests if they want to:https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/my-cell-testing-equipment-and-setup.7431/
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/whats-done-for-each-cell-test.7433/
My battery test results offer you a resource you can use when choosing a battery
that will not only be safer for the way you vape but will also give you great
performance.I’m looking forward to contributing to TasteYourJuice.com and I want to thank
PBusardo for the opportunity to help spread the word on exaggerated battery ratings
and battery safety!Mooch
Latest Battery Updates
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Eight different fake battery types to report!
Post #1 of 9
A vendor sent me a box of fakes, dozens of batteries, that he received after saying no to the supplier’s offer to send samples. They were sent anyway. This vendor will not be named because they do not sell fakes and were never going to sell these samples. They were sent to me for testing and to help warn the community about how widespread fakes really are.
The fakes in the box were 30Q’s, HE4’s, 25R’s, HG2’s, 30T’s, VTC5’s, VTC5A’s, and VTC6A 21700’s.
I will be posting about one fake type each day. Please read the following before contacting me or asking any questions on those posts…
– I am unable to tell if your batteries are genuine or fake from photos you send me. Contact the vendor you bought them from if you think you have fakes.
– The printing on the wraps is not a good way to tell if a battery is genuine or not. The quality can vary and what’s printed changes based on which factory and assembly line made them.
– The date/batch codes on the wraps for these fakes might be genuine codes! Do not assume every battery having the same code as these fakes is also a fake. Also do not assume that if you have a battery with a different date/batch code that it is genuine.
– I will not give these fakes a current rating. They’re frakkin’ fakes of unknown grade, date of manufacture, and internal condition. If you have any then just don’t use them, or any fakes.
– There are other fakes for these battery types out there. Do not automatically assume that if your batteries don’t match these fakes that they are genuine.
– Other battery types are being faked too. There is no battery that we can say will never be faked.
– Our only defense is to buy from a trusted or authorized vendor.
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Eizfan 40A 2500mAh 18650…hugely overrated, appears to be Samsung 25R
This cell just has a 40A “max” rating on the wrap but looks and performs identically to the Samsung 25R, a cell rated at 20A. To add to the confusion, Efan’s Alibaba web page seems to list this as a 35A continuous cell.
Efan says that they are rewrapping this cell, giving it a 25A continuous rating and a 40A “max” rating. But 25A continuous is also an exaggerated rating as it heats the cell to over 90°C. That is too high a temperature to allow for decent cycle life.
The datasheet says the 40A rating is a “Max Short Time Discharging Current” rating. Efan says this time is a “few seconds” but the rating is useless without knowing the length of the pulse, the time between pulses, and the criteria used to set the rating (temperature? voltage sag? cycle life? A combination of those?). I was unable to get Efan to give me this information.
Efan denies that this is a rewrap but I examined the cell with a loupe, even looking at the bend radii and metal thicknesses of the top contact structure and the tooling marks on the cell, and this Eizfan is identical to the 25R. It performs the same and is also the same size and weight as the 25R.
Something I don’t talk about nearly enough…the incorrect use of “IMR” on so many rewrapped cells. This Eizfan does not use the LMO (lithium-manganese-oxide) battery chemistry associated with the “IMR” model number prefix. The Samsung 25R uses NCA chemistry (nickel-cobalt-aluminum).
The capacity for two of the four cells I tested was 2568mAh and 2572mAh. This is fantastic consistency and typical of cells from the large OEM manufacturers like Samsung, Sony, etc. China manufactured cells usually have much worse cell-to-cell consistency.
I am giving this cell ratings of 20A and 2500mAh.
Four cells were donated for the purposes of testing by Efan (https://yi-fang.en.alibaba.com). Thank you!
Ratings graphic: https://imgur.com/a/zWU9kux
Test report: https://bit.ly/2Qwvq3h
I want to work for the vaping community full time! If you feel what I do is worth a couple dollars a month and you would like early access to battery availability and testing news and a say in what I test then please consider becoming a patron and supporting my testing efforts: https://www.patreon.com/batterymooch
These tests only note the ESTIMATED ratings for these batteries at the time I tested them. Any battery that is not a genuine Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic, or Sanyo can change at any time! This is one of the hazards of using “rewrapped” batteries or batteries from other manufacturers so carefully research any battery you are considering using before purchasing.
Misusing or mishandling lithium-ion batteries can pose a SERIOUS RISK of personal injury or property damage. They are not meant to be used outside of a protected battery pack. Never exceed the battery’s continuous current rating and keep the plastic wrap and top insulating ring in perfect condition.
Any rating in my ratings tables can change at any time as different grade cells appear on the market, we get swamped with fakes, or new information becomes available to me. Please, never assume that the ratings in the tables are permanent and will never change! Always download the latest version before considering any cell purchase.
To see how other cells have tested check out this link: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Eizfan 30A 3750mAh 21700…slightly overrated but good performer
This is a good performing cell that is slightly overrated. It appears to be the same cell that was used for the Golisi S35 and Efest 35A 3700mAh 21700’s when I tested them. This Eizfan runs a little hotter though so I have given it a 25A rating. Since they all might use the same cell the Golisi and Efest will need to be retested to see if they are also 25A now.
The capacity for the four Eizfan cells was 3857mAh to 4093mAh. China manufactured cells typically have worse cell-to-cell consistency, versus those from Samsung, Sony, etc., but this is a wider capacity range than I usually see. All of the cells I tested easily met their 3750mAh rating though.
Four cells were donated for the purposes of testing by Efan (https://efantech.en.alibaba.com). Thank you!
Ratings graphic: https://imgur.com/a/iLVHfoH
Test report: https://bit.ly/2FNZ2oz
I want to work for the vaping community full time! If you feel what I do is worth a couple dollars a month and you would like early access to battery availability and testing news and a say in what I test then please consider becoming a patron and supporting my testing efforts: https://www.patreon.com/batterymooch
These tests only note the ESTIMATED ratings for these batteries at the time I tested them. Any battery that is not a genuine Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic, or Sanyo can change at any time! This is one of the hazards of using “rewrapped” batteries or batteries from other manufacturers so carefully research any battery you are considering using before purchasing.
Misusing or mishandling lithium-ion batteries can pose a SERIOUS RISK of personal injury or property damage. They are not meant to be used outside of a protected battery pack. Never exceed the battery’s continuous current rating and keep the plastic wrap and top insulating ring in perfect condition.
Any rating in my ratings tables can change at any time as different grade cells appear on the market, we get swamped with fakes, or new information becomes available to me. Please, never assume that the ratings in the tables are permanent and will never change! Always download the latest version before considering any cell purchase.
To see how other cells have tested check out this link: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: AWT 35A 4800mAh 21700…obscenely overrated, DO NOT BUY
Another AWT cell deserving a Do Not Buy recommendation for the outrageously exaggerated current rating on the wrap.
This appears to be a rewrap of the pre-production LG M50 which is rated at 10A. This AWT is identical in both appearance and performance to the M50.
Two cells were purchased by me for the purposes of testing.
Ratings graphic: https://imgur.com/a/2H0tgvO
Test report: https://bit.ly/2DLZ3Hc
I want to work for the vaping community full time! If you feel what I do is worth a couple dollars a month and you would like early access to battery availability and testing news and a say in what I test then please consider becoming a patron and supporting my testing efforts: https://www.patreon.com/batterymooch
These tests only note the ESTIMATED ratings for these batteries at the time I tested them. Any battery that is not a genuine Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic, or Sanyo can change at any time! This is one of the hazards of using “rewrapped” batteries or batteries from other manufacturers so carefully research any battery you are considering using before purchasing.
Misusing or mishandling lithium-ion batteries can pose a SERIOUS RISK of personal injury or property damage. They are not meant to be used outside of a protected battery pack. Never exceed the battery’s continuous current rating and keep the plastic wrap and top insulating ring in perfect condition.
Any rating in my ratings tables can change at any time as different grade cells appear on the market, we get swamped with fakes, or new information becomes available to me. Please, never assume that the ratings in the tables are permanent and will never change! Always download the latest version before considering any cell purchase.
To see how other cells have tested check out this link: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: AWT 40A 3300mAh 18650…obscenely overrated, DO NOT BUY
This is ridiculous. This cell’s true rating appears to be under 10A but AWT has rated it at 40A on the wrap. I recommend not buying it or using it at any level. At just 20A, one half of the 40A rating given to this cell by AWT, it reached a temperature of 113°C!
PLEASE REMEMBER: There are no 18650’s we can buy with a capacity over 3000mAh that can have a rating over 10A and many are rated down near 3A.
Several cells were purchased directly from AWT and donated for the purposes of testing by someone who prefers to remain anonymous. Thank you!
Ratings graphic: https://imgur.com/a/PiIJk6R
Test report: https://bit.ly/2zuqVMS
I want to work for the vaping community full time! If you feel what I do is worth a couple dollars a month and you would like early access to battery availability and testing news and a say in what I test then please consider becoming a patron and supporting my testing efforts: https://www.patreon.com/batterymooch
These tests only note the ESTIMATED ratings for these batteries at the time I tested them. Any battery that is not a genuine Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic, or Sanyo can change at any time! This is one of the hazards of using “rewrapped” batteries or batteries from other manufacturers so carefully research any battery you are considering using before purchasing.
Misusing or mishandling lithium-ion batteries can pose a SERIOUS RISK of personal injury or property damage. They are not meant to be used outside of a protected battery pack. Never exceed the battery’s continuous current rating and keep the plastic wrap and top insulating ring in perfect condition.
Any rating in my ratings tables can change at any time as different grade cells appear on the market, we get swamped with fakes, or new information becomes available to me. Please, never assume that the ratings in the tables are permanent and will never change! Always download the latest version before considering any cell purchase.
To see how other cells have tested check out this link: https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/list-of-battery-tests.7436/
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Pre-production Samsung 50E2 9.8A 4900mAh 21700…great battery!
These are not the Samsung 50E pre-production samples that are floating around and rewrapped by some companies. The 50E2 is a much better performing later release of the 50E indicated by a “2” in the lower left corner of the printing on the wrap.
It’s similar to what Samsung did with the 25R. There was the blue-wrapped 25R2, then the green-wrapped 25R5, followed by the green-wrapped 25R6. Each one having a tweak to its performance.
I do not know if these will end up being the cells Samsung uses for production or if they will make additional tweaks but I am very impressed with the performance improvements over the 50E. Their internal resistance is very low which helps keep temperatures down and the voltage up, increasing the energy this cell can deliver.
This is an accurately rated, great performing ultra-high capacity 21700 cell. The datasheet lists the minimum capacity at 4753mAh and standard capacity of 4900mAh. The two 50E2’s I tested delivered 5051mAh and 5062mAh at 1A (0.2C) down to 2.5V. The DC internal resistance measured 20.7mOhms and 20.8mOhms. This is astounding consistency and fantastic to see.
The DC internal resistance of these cells is the same as a lot of the 20A 18650’s we use. But the current rating of the 50E2 is limited by its 60°C operating temperature limit. You cannot operate these at high current levels or temperatures. However, the low internal resistance of the 50E2 makes it a great performer.
This Samsung 50E2 outperforms the (earlier) Samsung 50E, the Samsung 48G, and the LG M50 samples I recently purchased (more about the M50 later). I do not know when the 50E2 will be available for sale or who will carry it but I hope it is soon.
I am rating the Samsung 50E2 at 10A/30W and 4900mAh. I will be retesting these again when they reach full production.
Two cells were donated for the purposes of testing by ENERdan GmbH (https://enerdan.de/en/). Thank you!
Ratings graphic: https://imgur.com/a/hDYoHRt
Test report: https://bit.ly/2zvhMnB
I want to work for the vaping community full time! If you feel what I do is worth a couple dollars a month and you would like early access to battery availability and testing news and a say in what I test then please consider becoming a patron and supporting my testing efforts: https://www.patreon.com/batterymooch
These tests only note the ESTIMATED ratings for these batteries at the time I tested them. Any battery that is not a genuine Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic, or Sanyo can change at any time! This is one of the hazards of using “rewrapped” batteries or batteries from other manufacturers so carefully research any battery you are considering using before purchasing.
Misusing or mishandling lithium-ion batteries can pose a SERIOUS RISK of personal injury or property damage. They are not meant to be used outside of a protected battery pack. Never exceed the battery’s continuous current rating and keep the plastic wrap and top insulating ring in perfect condition.
Any rating in my ratings tables can change at any time as different grade cells appear on the market, we get swamped with fakes, or new information becomes available to me. Please, never assume that the ratings in the tables are permanent and will never change! Always download the latest version before considering any cell purchase.
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Never let this happen to your batteries!
The risk of a fire or battery explosion is very real: https://imgur.com/a/YZL03B7
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: Eizfan 10A 5000mAh 21700…accurately rated, identical to Samsung 50E
This is an accurately rated, good performing ultra-high capacity 21700 cell. It is identical in appearance, performance, and operating temperature to the Samsung 50E but Efan strongly denies that is it a rewrapped 50E. They say it is a cell made by them.
The Efan datasheet lists the minimum capacity at 4780mAh and nominal capacity at 5000mAh. The four Eizfan’s I tested delivered 5006mAh-5010mAh at 1A (0.2C) down to 2.5V. This is astounding consistency and they all easily meet their minimum capacity rating. This consistency is typical of good OEM cells from Samsung, Sony, LG, etc., but is better than any China manufactured cell I have seen so far.
This Eizfan outperforms the Samsung 48G but I have not tested the LG M50 yet so I can’t compare them.
There is a “15A” number on the wrap and the datasheet claims a “Max short time discharging current” rating of 15A but the time is not listed and the criteria used to set the rating are unknown. Therefore it is a useless rating.
I am rating this Eizfan at 10A/30W and 5000mAh. I will be retesting these again at some point to confirm they have not changed what cell they are wrapping.
Four cells were donated for the purposes of testing by Efan (https://efantech.en.alibaba.com). Thank you!
Ratings graphic: https://imgur.com/a/asfYR6D
Test report: https://bit.ly/2DEyfJv
I want to work for the vaping community full time! If you feel what I do is worth a couple dollars a month and you would like early access to battery availability and testing news and a say in what I test then please consider becoming a patron and supporting my testing efforts: https://www.patreon.com/batterymooch
These tests only note the ESTIMATED ratings for these batteries at the time I tested them. Any battery that is not a genuine Samsung, Sony, LG, Panasonic, or Sanyo can change at any time! This is one of the hazards of using “rewrapped” batteries or batteries from other manufacturers so carefully research any battery you are considering using before purchasing.
Misusing or mishandling lithium-ion batteries can pose a SERIOUS RISK of personal injury or property damage. They are not meant to be used outside of a protected battery pack. Never exceed the battery’s continuous current rating and keep the plastic wrap and top insulating ring in perfect condition.
Any rating in my ratings tables can change at any time as different grade cells appear on the market, we get swamped with fakes, or new information becomes available to me. Please, never assume that the ratings in the tables are permanent and will never change! Always download the latest version before considering any cell purchase.
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The new Regulated Mod Recommended Batteries table has been uploaded to my blog on ECF.
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/blog-entry/moochs-recommended-batterie.7593/
This table, and the already released one for mech mods, replaces the existing Recommended Batteries table. Please delete any older versions of the table you have.
This table is not a list of ALL the best performing batteries for a regulated mod!
A battery is not “bad” if it’s not in the table!
It’s just a few of my personal choices, some batteries to consider for vapers who are confused by the huge numbers of choices. THERE ARE MANY, MANY OTHER GREAT BATTERIES YOU CAN USE! The table needs to be kept small though and I cannot have all the good batteries in the table. They need to be pretty widely available worldwide too.
Many of you will want to ask if the batteries you are using are okay in a regulated mod. Check near the bottom of this table to see what wattages you can run at for the different true battery current ratings (not the exaggerated ratings on many wraps!). I recommend staying under the true current rating, and its wattage equivalent, unless you fully understand and accept the risks.
This table can change at any time and will be updated whenever needed.
A BATTERY MOOCH POST: The new Mech Mod Recommended Batteries table has been uploaded to my blog on ECF
The new Mech Mod Recommended Batteries table has been uploaded to my blog on ECF:
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/blog-entry/moochs-recommended-batteries.7593/
This table, and the soon to be released one for regulated mods, replaces the existing Recommended Batteries table. Please delete any older versions of the table you have.
This table is not a list of ALL the best performing batteries for a mech!
A battery is not “bad” if it’s not in the table!
It’s just a few of my personal choices, some batteries to consider for vapers who are confused by the huge numbers of choices. There are dozens of other great performing batteries but the table needs to be kept small and many batteries have limited availability.
Many of you will want to ask if the batteries you are using are okay in a mech. Run the Ohm’s Law equation for the coil resistances you are using and see how much current you are drawing from the battery. Compare that to its true current rating. I recommend staying under the rating unless you fully understand and accept the risks.
This table can change at any time and will be updated whenever needed.
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